Why yes, you ARE a homophobe and no, that's NOT okay.

[gnimaerd]

Right, this pisses me off.

 Posted by Noradia on Jan 24 2008 at 02:20

Thanks for uploading this episode. The trailer looked fantastic.
Hope this is not as queer as episode one. Torchwood could be so much bigger and better if there wasn't so much queerness in it. I have nothing bad to say about g a y people, but please keep it at home. If these writers want to include stuff like this in their episodes, it should only be shown in an x-rated home release or something.
Hey, is James Marsden g a y? That's too hard to fathom.
Please forgive me if I offend some of you.
Thanks again for the episode!
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And immediately after that...

Posted by Noradia on Jan 24 2008 at 02:21

I forgot to mention: I do have some friends who are g-a-y, so please don't think I have anything against you.
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First of all - 'queerness'? Really? Okay, people who are straight do NOT get to use that word. It's not quite as pad as 'poof' or 'fairy' or 'fag' or 'dyke' but it's in that vein and not even gay people (that I know, myself included) use 'queer' with any regularity any more. 

Second of all - this person has 'nothing against' me, does she? Then why does she want to see people with my sexuality marginalised? Men KISSING should be x-rated? Because it's SO obscene, apparently. It's SO pornographic and SO currupting we'll turn all the little kiddies gay and the human race will die out because no one will want to shag anyone of the opposite sex any more because there are MEN KISSING on tv - REGULARLY.

DEAR GOD THE HORROR!

People like this make me SO angry. They are the WORST kind of homophobe, because they don't realise that that is PRECISELY what they are. They think they have 'nothing against' us. They even have 'friends who are g-a-y'. But what they have is heterosexual privilige and they are the single biggest obsticle to GLBT people achieving a status as equals to heterosexuals in society.  You know what we are? We are NORMAL. There is NOTHING WRONG WITH US. A show with gay characters, with bisexual characters, with a canon gay romance between regulars - that is a FUCKING GREAT STEP FORWARD because it normalises something that so many people see as 'weird' or 'perverse'. They have no problem with us so long as we keep it to ourselves, sit in a nice, shiny row and never kiss in public so that we don't disrupt their happy, heterosexual lives and disturb the nice, normal heterosexual couples kissing in the streets and on tv.

WE ARE NORMAL. All we want is to be SEEN as NORMAL. Emphasis on SEEN. The problem with people like this - with all the many, MANY people like this - is that they DON'T see us as normal. Whatever they say, however much they say they have 'nothing against us', however many gay friends they have. They see us as perverse - as something 'other' and a little bit dirty that needs to be kept behind closed doors. (and the irony is that if her gay friends - which I doubt she actually has - knew that that was her attitude, I doubt they'd actually BE her friends for very long).

And it upsets me, because falling in love with a woman is probably the most beautiful feeling I've ever had. It's sublime. And pure, and good, and true. There is nothing perverted; there is nothing digusting; there is nothing seedy about how I feel and have felt. And at the height of it I've wanted to stand up and SING IT from the ROOFTOPS because it makes me so happy and I want to world to SEE that! Who doesn't want to share how happy that feeling makes them?

And people like her - people who have 'nothing against' me - if they were in charge, they'd make sure I never could. They'd grimace and tut and look away if I did. People like her are what is WRONG with this world; people like her make me so damn angry and so damn sad. Because I'm not safe yet. I may never be.

Comments

[smaych.livejournal.com]

That annoys me too. I find the q-word offensive, and I certainly find the idea that two people of the same gender kissing is somehow more obscene than two people of opposite gender very offensive.

But hey, I don't have a problem with people being homophobic. You know, as long as they do it behind closed doors where no one has to see it. Gotta protect the kiddies from that kind of thing. ;)

[wikidwitch.livejournal.com]

I have no problems with boys kissing onscreen. Personally, I don't find it at all alluring, but it's just kinda marvellous that the BBC is able and willing to normalise homosexual relationships - although I'll admit that Torchwood isn't exactly true to life in other respects :) There are gay people out there, and they do have relationships, and nobody should be able to dictate what is 'normal' and what isn't. For me normal used to be popping anti-depressants every day and having panic attacks in bathrooms.

I haven't much personal experience with any kind of discrimination - being a middle-class white chick who likes boys - so I don't know what it feels like, but I find it offensive when I see it happening to others. I find discrimination and stupidity every day, at uni and at work, on the internet, on the bus - it's everywhere. Sometimes it's a shock to realise that there are so many people out there who are ignorant and discriminatory. Then they follow it up with the 'I have gay friends!' and I can't help but wonder exactly how deluded they are. Sadly, it's pandemic. Most people are ill educated and closeminded, and these people are usually the ones that are most likely to be ignorant of the fact.

On a sort of related note, that wank I was blabbering about? All started with an author referring to Mickey as a poof. She found nothing offensive about the word and simply couldn't imagine why it would get people's hackles up. I think it's ridiculous that there's still one set of standards for one and not the other. As far as I know, there aren't any derogatory terms for heterosexuals. Feeling the need to make the situation worse by derogatory names and not thinking there's anything wrong with it is only fuelling the hate and furthering the misconceptions.

[telynmurali.livejournal.com]

*headdesk* *head, repeatedly and hard, desk* And only because I'd rather be bashing theirs into the desk. I can't really say anything that you haven't already said, but jeez, I can't stand people like that. And you're exactly right - part of what gets me so much about them is that they don't even realise.

I'm a little saddened to find that people find the word 'queer' offensive in any context. I use it myself - to describe myself, of course - to avoid the catastrophic labelling that goes on all over the place. 'Are you gay - a lesbian, I mean? Oh, you're bisexual, then? Well, what?' Most people I've encountered - and I have to admit that those people have been blessedly open-minded - accept queer without trying to make me explain exactly how much I'm attracted to men, women and anyone else, in between or otherwise. Queer covers it all nicely, I've found.

[gnimaerd.livejournal.com]

Queer is a fine word to describe yourself - but straight people shouldn't be using it unless they're calling someone queer who they already know well and know likes/doesn't mind being called queer. As a general term for GLBT people, coming from someone who is not only straight but clearly utterly blind to the issues non-straight people face, the complexities of labeling and self-identifying that we have to deal with, queer is not the word to use. I don't find it THAT offensive, but because I know that it comes from a derogatory term for GLBT people used a few decades back, hearing it from an (ignorant) straight person rankles with me. We can reclaim the word if we want to - in the same way that some lesbains will call themselves dykes. But from straight people, it's not a word I want to hear.

[funkyinfishnet.livejournal.com]

*facepalms* people like that give us straight people a bad name. I'm straight and Christian and I really hope that I don't come off like that person. I love that Torchwood has bisexual and gay characters in the lead and do it without apology on prime time TV. It's not a strictly just so you're warned gay programme put on late at night, it's a programme about people and love and lust. As for blokes kissing, how can you not want to see that? Especially when it's men as gorgeous as Jack, John and Ianto. People like that I cannot fathom, they're cringe-worthy.

[gnimaerd.livejournal.com]

Don't worry, you don't come off like that person at all - chiefly 'cause you're NOT like her at all. ^_^ Thankfully I have loads of straight friends plus fandom, which is full of straight girls who's dearest wish is to see men making out with each other on screen, so I'm not too cynical about the attitude of the majority of straight of people. I think because Torchwood is one of the first ever mainstream shows that is just a show that happens to have gay/bisexual characters and gay romance, as opposed to a show ABOUT gay and bisexual characters with gay romance, this kind of attitude is bound to surface. It just stings when the reality of it hits me in the face like that. Hopefully, with Torchwood's success, other shows with a similar ethos will spring up and gradually people's attitudes will change.

[indes-elfwine.livejournal.com]

I almost prefer the people who think gays will burn in hell, because at least you know from the start that they're assholes.

My friend Tom came out to his parents over the Christmas holidays. His dad cut off his Intenet connection because he thought he was using it to meet boys and wouldn't talk to him for a week. His mum is utterly supportive and wants to meet his boyfriend. And it's harder for Tom now but he's glad he told his dad, and he's looking forward to spending his first Valentines Day with Nathan. They're so sweet together and I don't for the life of me understand why that would be a horrible big deal to anyone.

Pointless hate and stupidity make me sad. :(

[halfapint.livejournal.com]

Firstly - Oh my god, she can't even write gay as just that, she has to write it G-A-Y or is there a word filter in place or something? Please tell me it's a filter or I shall SCREAM. Truly.

Secondly - queerness. *giggles* That just sounds a bit daft in the context. She's got these things saying "get it off my screen!" all intolerant and then uses a lovely word like queer. Honestly... Can't she just say poof or something? I'm not fussed by those words - at least they have the guts to stick to their guns and admit "hey, i don't like gay people, deal with it!" Saying queer is just... kinda lame. Plus queer only works if you mean strange. Definitely.

Thirdly - I can't say my (little) experience with women has been pleasant but it's nice to hear you've found it wonderful. That's what we like to hear! *offers hugs and lots of chocolate*

Finally - dammit I had a funny comment and I forgot it. O_o;; Although I just noticed she says "no offence against you" - does this mean she assumes the uploader is gay also? Or is there something specific referencing this, or is she just addressing the gay population? BTW, Torchwood right? Been good so far?

I also have a favour to ask of you - I'm doing my media coursework (it's just changed :O) on the representation of women in Robin Hood (BBC of course ^_^;;) and was wondering if I could mention the problem you faced when they sent back an automated reply that simply didn't answer your questions? (How is that going, by the way?) You raised some really good points and it's a great thing to put in the essay. >_>;; It might mean I'd need to copy the original email/response and put it in the samples/bibliography, but I thought I'd ask in case you might agree! *feels nervous now*

*hugs, runs away*

[gnimaerd.livejournal.com]

The bad news is that it wasn't a filter. It might have been because this... 'comment' came off a torrent site where posters are encouraged to abbreviate words that might allow search engines to find the posts - but still, I hardly think 'gay' will draw THAT much attention. XP

I think she was addressing the entire gay population. Nothing like a sense of the grandiose, is there? It's one of the more pathetic things about this particular breed of homophobe - the whole 'I'm just going to blatantly insult, marginalise and belittle you and all those who share your sexuality... but I don't want to offend anyone!' *snork*

And sure, you can use it - I don't mind. I haven't written a reply to their automated email yet. I've tried several times but only end up ranting, so I'm thinking I should give it a few more days util I can write something coherant and intelligent and more likely to be responded to. But I certainly WILL be persuing it, whatever happens.

[missbess.livejournal.com]

I laugh incessantly at the stupid, STUPID, people who can't see past what they perceive as wrong or different to the human being underneath. I also pity them (as they probably pity me, will explain in a sec) as their view of the world is extremely limited and most likely boring as.

I can calim similar discrimination. i was born with a few limbs missing and therefore have had to put up with the pity act all my life. The thing people fail to notice is that i am exactly the same as them, I have feelings, interests, ambitions. I fallen in love, dream of having kids one day, want a career etc. But a lot of people (and I am glad to say it is becoming a minority) can't seem to see past what makes me 'different'. The thing is I don't see myself as disabled because this is my body and thats the way its always been.

I think so caled 'difference' scares people because they don't understand and the sad thing is they don't want to even try to understand.

Whew, had my rant for the day . . . . . .

[gnimaerd.livejournal.com]

Ugh - the pity act; though obviously not to the same extreme, I understand how tedious that one can get - having been overweight most of my life, I get attitudes directed at me that are in a similar vein, which are pretty much worse than people just being outright cruel about it. The ones who feel like they need to warn me about diabetes, or advise me about diet plans, or even which clothes to wear! Like I'm a walking cry for help because I wear a size eighteen - it's like 'stop presuming things about me because of what society teaches you about fat people!' Yuck. XP Those people certainly could use having their minds smacked with a big hard dose of reality - 'cause man what kind of world must they be living in?

Rants are good. I find them theraputic. And people really do have issues with difference, whatever that difference from the supposed mainstream is. I suppose we just have to keep smacking them with shows like Torchwood until they grow brains.

[unmellow-yellow.livejournal.com]

We should send her a virtual ass-kicking. You're right she IS the worst kind, the ones who think they are SO tolerant, but when they see some of us kissing or holding hands in public, they're disgusted. And they start of conversations with "I'm not homophobic or anything.......but I wish those people would keep their hands to themselves in public." Ugh. They call us "those people."

I find it insulting that she spells it out g-a-y. Like what the fuck, is there something wrong with the word GAY? GAAAAAY! I LOVE THAT WORD!

If she loves spelling so much, then Noradia is a m-o-r-o-n.